Communication Internship Spotlights
By Julia Greenland
When your favorite show takes a commercial break, you may think it’s a perfect time to hop up and grab a snack and rarely give a second thought to the commercial now playing on your television screen. Few people realize the hard work that goes into creating and timing the commercials they see every day. During the fall of 2010, LHU senior Joshua Dukeman learned the complexities of creating the commercials we view each time we turn on the television.
Dukeman put his Communication major to work at MTV Networks in New York City. He worked as the VH1 National Ad Sales Intern and, because the companies are affiliated with each other, he performed duties for both MTV and VH1. MTV Networks is “an entertainment business that specializes in all forms of media,” stated Dukeman.
When Dukeman first began his internship he took six classes where he trained to be a Customer Service Representative (CSR) and learned the terms and what-to-dos/not-to-dos of the trade. He also learned how to operate “Gabriel,” a program that allows CSRs to work with putting units or commercials into time slots during shows.
He learned to never place two competing food commercials back to back. He also learned what a “sandwich” and a “bookend” is. A sandwich is when a commercial is placed in between two commercials by the same company. A bookend is the term used for placing the same commercial at the beginning and end of the commercial break.
During his internship Dukeman was responsible for completing “posts,” quarterly reports that follow up with the companies whose commercials air on MTV’s networks. He would let the companies know that they were getting their money’s worth out of the amount of commercials being aired and the placement of their time slots. “The client wants to know their viewership hits at or above what they’re guaranteed,” he said. Dukeman also performed various administrative duties, odds & ends to help others in the office, and networking with clients.
Dukeman remembers spending much time at his computer and talking to clients. He realized this type of work “is not what I’d like to do.” Dukeman is creative and found working as the ad sales intern to be too analytical of a position. He had to be very focused at all times to make sure the commercials were placed in their correct time slots. Placing a commercial where it does not belong can affect everything that comes after it.
Dukeman always wanted to work in television, and interning with MTV helped him to fulfill that dream. He stated that, “if I really set my mind to things, I can do them. Who would have thought a small town kid from Lock Haven could get an internship with MTV?”
Dukeman found his internship through a friend at Penn State University. He first applied online, he was then called for a ten to fifteen minute phone interview, and finally he met in person with a representative from MTV. After showing the representative an ad he had created, he was hired. The ad was for Axe Body Spray, it consisted of a picture of Josh Hartnett, and the caption read, “What you do during the work day is your business. How you smell during the work day is ours.”
Dukeman recommends students apply for internships with MTV because it “is a company that plays hard and works hard. I always felt appreciated there,” he stated. He also advises students to begin their internship search as soon as possible. If you are interested in obtaining an internship, contact your advisor, talk with your professors, ask friends and family, or check out the internships on the Career Services website: www.lhup.edu/careerservices.
By Julia Greenland
The world of media and public relations in Washington D.C. is both fast-paced and exciting to Communication major, Nicole Cozzi. This summer Cozzi, a senior at Lock Haven University, interned at Tricom Associates, a small public relations firm. The company, located in Arlington Virginia near Washington D.C., specializes in public relations advertising and event planning for non-profit organizations and unions.
Cozzi worked as the public relations intern for Tricom Associates. Her responsibilities included writing press releases, writing media advisories, and pitch calling. Cozzi also updated Tricom Associate’s Twitter and Facebook intern accounts to inform clients and future interns of the company’s activities. Tricom Associates required Cozzi to read the newspaper each day to become aware of all the current news and happenings in the media.
Through her internship, Cozzi learned to use CiscionPoint, an online program containing contact information for different types of media. Familiarizing herself with CiscionPoint was a treat for Cozzi because it was an experience she never had before in class.
Cozzi’s most memorable moment came when she attended a town meeting with Alliance for American Manufacturing. Cozzi said she was “impressed how engaged people were about manufacturing, jobs, and the nation. People were fighting for good reasons.” Cozzi was especially pleased to see entire families in the audience become passionate to learn about manufacturing and jobs.
Cozzi learned that public relations is not a field for those lacking self confidence. Her least favorite aspect of the internship was being rejected during pitch calls. She noticed that the distance and impersonal nature of a phone call licensed some people to be rude. Cozzi said her experience made her realize that “You have to be on top of your game. Public relations is a very critical field. It’s not just knowing how to write or knowing how to speak. You have to be knowledgeable.”
Sampling the field of public relations was a valuable experience for Cozzi. She is interested in a career which involves press releases, pitch calls, event planning and marketing. Interning with Tricom Associates “kind of gave me a taste of everything,” she said.
Cozzi also found moving to a different area an enriching experience. Life in Washington D.C. is fast-paced, and people are politically aware: “It was fun to see everyone reading the newspaper,” Cozzi said.
Nicole Cozzi found her internship at Tricom Associates through the Honors Program at Lock Haven University. If you are interested in finding an internship, a great place to start is at Career Services, Akeley 114.
By Julia Greenland
When people think of the fashion industry in New York City, the movie The Devil Wears Prada is sure to come to mind. In the movie Anne Hathaway can barely keep her head above water in this cut throat world of fashion. One Lock Haven student, however, not only survived, but thrived in the fashion capital of the United States.
Melissa Jacona, a senior Communications major at Lock Haven University, spent her summer interning for the world-famous Siwy Denim Company in its Manhattan, New York location. Siwy Denim designs and markets denim products to boutiques and department stores throughout the nation and worldwide.
Jacona’s responsibilities varied greatly during her internship. She usually helped with sales and marketing. Jacona would either research a boutique online or visit the boutique on location to determine what types of denim brands it sold, how it set up its line, and inquire if the boutique was interested in selling Siwy denim.
Each day included appointments with potential buyers. “I would have to clean up the showroom,” said Jacona, ensure the Fall 2010 denim line was displayed in the show room, and provide “crumb cupcakes” for refreshments. Once Jacona was familiar with the clothing line, “I was able to show the buyers some of the stuff I thought they would like,” she said.
After seeing movies like The Devil Wears Prada, Jacona said, “I was expecting everyone was going to be mean.” However, the Account Executive made Jacona feel welcome because she had once undergone a similar internship experience as well.
Adjusting to the city was tough for Jacona. “I didn’t know how to use the subway. The first couple of weeks I was really nervous and all over the place and had to spend a lot of money on cabs,” she said. However, Jacona confidently stated that, “By the end of the summer I felt I could move to the city.”
Meeting the company’s denim designer was Jacona’s most memorable moment at Siwy. Jacona noticed a woman having difficulty entering the showroom. Assuming this was a potential buyer, Jacona helped the woman enter the room. She then realized the woman was the denim designer and started a conversation with her. The designer then invited Jacona out to lunch.
Jacona found her internship through fashionista.com. She checked the website everyday for months for new internship postings and applied to those that interested her. As the country’s fashion capital, Jacona knew attaining an internship in New York City would be competitive. She was also afraid attending a small school would prevent her from attaining an interview.
Jacona’s Business Communication class helped her prepare for the interview, and she was able to complete the interview calmly and confidently. “All I was doing there was communicating with others,” she said.
Jacona’s internship helped her realize she wants to work in the fashion industry. She enjoyed Siwy Denim’s atmosphere and enjoyed the business and marketing aspects of fashion. Jacona believes that, “You definitely do need experience. Everyone requires an internship,” in the fashion industry. She says, “Experience is huge. It’s a way of networking and getting your name out there.”
Jacona found her internship through the internet. However, if you are unsure where to begin your search for an internship, stop by the Career Services Office, Akeley 114. They will be glad to help you!
By Amanda Alexander
Reality TV is known for some outrageous characters, and ABC’s “Wife Swap” is no exception. While watching this show, in which two very different families swap wives for a two-week period, one can’t help but wonder where they find some of these people.
The answer to this question can be found on our own campus- James Blankenfeld found them.
Blankenfeld, a senior communication media major with emphases in broadcast, public relations and advertising, got a chance to handpick a set of families for an upcoming episode of the show during his summer internship in New York City.
“I ended up finding my own family and pitched it… now I’m going to watch them on TV because of me. That’s pretty cool,” he said. Blankenfeld found this family through Myspace.
His internship with RDF Media, which he found through the Career Services website, allowed him to work with different departments and helping to select families for the show, and just “making sure everything ran smoothly,” he said.
Although it was unpaid, Blankenfeld said his internship was everything he had hoped for.
“It was exactly what I wanted to do. I always wanted to get involved with the behind-the-scenes stuff on TV,” he said.
Because he lives only a half hour away from the city, he was able to commute from home for the 12-week internship. A typical workday was from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Blankenfeld said the great thing about his internship was that he got to do something different every day.
“It rotated each day,” he said. “You never went in to do the same thing you did the day before.”
Some of his duties included delivering equipment such as cameras to different areas in the city; attending meetings for casting, production and other departments; calling families to recruit them for the show; and logging, which consists of listening to the tryout videotapes and writing down everything the families say, before sending it to the producers so they can read along while watching the tapes.
His favorite aspect of the internship was working with the production team. “I got to recruit certain people to be on the show, and see how they hire camera guys and video guys,” he said.
He was also able to work with the camera technician after he expressed interest in learning how to work the camera. “He really helped me out a lot,” said Blankenfeld, adding that the technician called him whenever there was an opportunity to use the camera and showed him how to use it.
Blankenfeld was also offered the unique opportunity of working on the set of a TV show as a side job through the internship. He got to work on the set of WE TV’s “My Fair Wedding,” and although it wasn’t technically part of his internship, he wouldn’t have been offered the chance to do so without the connections he gained through his internship.
Occasionally he had to do things he wasn’t so crazy about. His least favorite part of the internship was taking care of the menial tasks such as copying, sorting and filing papers. “I wasn’t learning,” he said as the reason he didn’t like these jobs.
The most valuable lesson Blankenfeld learned from his internship was that “there are a lot of things in life you don’t want to do, and at the time they seem pointless. But when you look back at them, it makes sense.”
He’s glad he did the internship because he now has a ton of experience for his resume, as well as a good recommendation from RDF. Plus, “you meet so many people who have connections,” he said.
Not only did his internship give him confidence that he will excel in his career, it made him eager to get started right away. “I think the internship made me want to do it more,” he said.
His advice for anyone who‘d like to have an internship like his is simple: “You just have to go for it. You can’t be afraid of rejection.”
By Danielle Burkhart
How many students have the opportunity to spend a summer with a professional sports team? Not many, but between
May and August of 2009, Danielle Burkhart spent the majority of her time with the Pittsburgh Pirates Organization, specifically the Pirate’s In-Game Entertainment Department.
Burkhart is a senior at Lock Haven University, majoring in Communication Media with concentrations in broadcasting and also advertising and public relations.
For 14 weeks, Burkhart went to work at PNC Park on the North Shore of Pittsburgh. This ballpark was recently built in 2002 and is an impressive state-of-the-art venue. She spent most of her time in the control room located at the top of the ballpark.
“When I started my internship with the Pirates, I thought I knew a good amount about media. Little did I know, almost every company’s operations are different from the next,” said Burkhart. Major League Baseball organizations are very unique when it comes to their media departments.
Throughout Burkhart’s time with the Pirates In-Game Entertainment Department, she learned about the duties and responsibilities of the department and the duties and responsibilities of the individuals who make every game possible.
“I had the opportunity to learn the majority of the jobs that go on during a game, said Burkhart. “The jobs that I learned over the summer were operating the Thunder Video Server, the Deko Character Generator, and the small and large Fascia boards, technical directing, keeping a score card, operating camera, and field producing.”
Throughout the summer, Burkhart was the only intern in the In-Game Entertainment Department; however, she did work very close with the other employees in that department. One specific employee who took Burkhart under his wing was, Matt Walker, the Graphics Producer for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Walker was also once an intern for the Pirates and worked his way up through the years to his new position. He had a lot of insight and advice for Burkhart during her internship, considering he had been in her shoes.
Throughout college Burkhart was unsure of exactly what she wanted to do after graduation. Always having had an interest in technical directing, she decided this was something that she wanted to try while at the Pirates. Technical directing was just one of the many jobs that Burkhart held at the Pirates.
“Now I not only have more experience with technical directing, but also running a camera, working with programs that are essential for ballpark entertainment, and experience as a field director for a major league baseball team,” said Burkhart.
This internship was connected to Burkhart’s academic experience because many of the skills and techniques that she had learned at Lock Haven University have been polished and refined while she was with the Pirates.
Specific classes at Lock Haven University that have helped Burkhart while she was interning at Pittsburgh, were Video Workshop and Broadcast Journalism: Television.
“I could not ask for an internship more related to my career goals,” said Burkhart. “I loved what I did, the experience and skills that I walked away with, and the people that I worked with. The best advice I could give is to intern. How else will you decide if you like a career until you try it?”
As a result of her internship, Burkhart has been offered a position with the Pittsburgh Pirates. She plans to return and work with the Pirates after graduating from Lock Haven University in May.
Danielle Burkhart found her internship with the Pittsburgh Pirates through networking; however, the Career Services Office is a great place to start your internship search.
By Amanda Alexander
It is many a sports fan’s dream to get behind the scenes, talk to the players one-on-one, discuss the team with the owners, or keep a game-winning ball.
Senior Kate Chorney got to experience all of this and more during her summer 2008 internship with the Philadelphia Force, a fast-pitch softball team with games based in Allentown.
Chorney, a communication media major with concentrations in advertising and public relations as well as a minor in communication studies, worked 40-hour weeks with the team all summer, earning a total of nine credits.
She received help from Dr. Girton of the communication studies department in finding an internship. Girton recommended the program and Chorney, an athlete herself, was very enthusiastic about using her communication skills to work in a sports environment.
One of the perks of Chorney’s job was spending time with the team members. “We really got to know them. We actually got to hang out with them and go out with them after practice. The owners were fantastic, too,” she said. Chorney enjoyed getting to know the team’s general manager and owners and finding out about things that go on behind the scenes.
“You really don’t understand what goes into one softball game,” she said.
Chorney also enjoyed working with the four other interns who shared her job. “Anything they really threw at us, we really helped each other out with,” she said.
One aspect of the internship that really stuck with her was the help she received from the program’s intern coordinator, Barry Eisenburg, who Chorney described as an outgoing, friendly man.
“He knew we were all new to this,” she said. “He showed us what really goes on.”
A typical day for the interns included a variety of promotional activities such as playing games with the fans, coordinating autograph sessions and setting up meetings between fans and their favorite players. They were also responsible for watching the weather, helping field maintenance workers, streaming the games to the internet from the cameras that were set up at baselines, and setting up people to sing the national anthem.
Chorney enjoyed the way her internship constantly integrated aspects of public relations and advertising. She said that while she learned the basics of advertising and PR in her classes at LHU, she was really able to apply these things and take them to the next level with her internship by giving out free tickets to games, going to different places to advertise the games, and doing the live streams.
“Everything just all coming together was awesome,” she said. “I love just seeing the end result of all your hard work and preparation.”
Bringing the knowledge from her internship into the classroom has really helped Chorney to be able to understand the material.
“I think my internship really helped me out with my classes,” she said. “I would really recommend having an internship.”
The only downside to the internship was the daily commute.
“Driving was the worst,” Chorney said, adding that she had to make the hour commute each morning, work until 10 or 11 p.m. and then come back early the next day. However, she found the job “really rewarding” overall.
One of Chorney’s best memories from the summer is the day one of the team members hit a game-winning home run.
“I got the winning ball,” Chorney said. She was able to have all the team members sign the ball. “That was kind of special,” she said.
Thanks to her internship, Chorney has a much clearer idea of the career path she would like to pursue when she graduates in May.
“I debated between PR and advertising,” she said. “I now know I want to do PR.”
Chorney said the most important thing for a student who’d like do well in their internship is to keep an open mind.
“Really be open to anything they give to you,” she advised. Thanks to her willingness to do any task that was assigned to her, Chorney was able to do different things every day and learn aspects of the business that she never knew about before.
By Amanda Alexander
Many times while watching the news, we are just about to change the channel when something catches our attention and makes us stop. If you watched WTAE Channel 4 Action News, Pittsburgh, this summer, that something may have been Becca Gregg.
Gregg was a summer intern with WTAE, the No. 22 news station in the country, which covers all of western Pennsylvania, as well as some areas of Maryland, West Virginia and Ohio. This was Gregg’s first internship.
As one of two interns in the promotions department, Gregg had a variety of duties from day to day. “There were so many responsibilities,” she said, adding that although she only did the internship for three credits, she typically worked five days a week from 10-5, as there was too much work to be done for only a few hours a week.
Gregg spent plenty of time doing “promotional writing,” for upcoming newscasts. Those little snippets in between your favorite TV shows that give you a preview of the upcoming news can be just as important as the news itself- they keep you watching. She also wrote a daily promotional email that put synopses together of all the shows and their most important topics.
Gregg’s description of a typical day starts out with catching up on the day’s headlines. Gregg and her fellow intern spent most mornings reading news updates on the computer, as reporters sent in updates from their Blackberries. The interns would watch the news at noon and attend a meeting with producers at 1:45 to go over everything that needed to be prepared for the 5 p.m. news. After hearing the top stories planned, Gregg would write a promotion for the evening to get people to “stay tuned” for whatever was coming up that night and get video from reporters to accompany the promotion.
On top of these daily tasks, Gregg spent plenty of time planning events. One of these events was the annual WTAE-TV Day at Kennywood event, which was held Thursday, July 10. This is a day for the public to get to know their favorite TV personalities. News anchors, reporters and meteorologists from the Channel 4 Action News team make appearances in the park and sign autographs. For this event, Gregg was in charge of calling and booking entertainment and booking vendors.
Although her internship was unpaid, Gregg still found it to be a rewarding experience on many levels. “I loved going in every day,” Gregg said. Her favorite aspect of the internship was becoming a part of the team. “They really treat you like an employee there,” she said, adding that she didn’t know what to expect on the first day but “we didn’t have to get coffee once.”
One of Gregg’s favorite aspects of working at a news station was getting the inside scoop. “I loved being an insider,” she said. Gregg got to hear about news as it was happening instead of after the fact, and one of her most exciting moments on the job was going out on the beat with one of the reporters.
She also gained valuable insight into the field and received plenty of advice from her superiors. Gregg was especially honored to get advice from beloved Pittsburgh anchor Sally Wiggin. “I got to talk to her so much,” she said excitedly.
Gregg said she would recommend her internship to anyone who’s interested in working in TV. “It was such a good experience,” Gregg said, adding that the internship confirmed her career path and made her feel like she’s in the right major. It also gave her confidence that she’ll be able to survive in the real world.
Surprisingly to Gregg, it also encouraged her to keep pushing herself to excel in college. “It really just gave me the drive to do better,” she said. “It made me think of what I’m capable of.” While before, Gregg said, she shied away from leadership positions in things like Havenscope, now she feels more comfortable trying new things.
Gregg said she would definitely recommend that everyone have an internship. Learning the ins and outs of the job she wants to have in the future took a lot of pressure off her and let her know what to expect when she graduates. She added that it gave her an edge over the competition; her internship has given her experience that people without internships can’t claim to have.
While Gregg recognized the value of her internship, she said students can’t wait around to find one like hers. “You can’t really wait for it to fall into your lap. You have to contact them,” she said. “Be proactive.”
By Danielle Burkhart
What started out as just another high school activity turned into a paid internship for a Lock Haven University student.
Rachel Mazza, Freshman and dual major in Communication Media and Criminal Justice, began working with the Lock Haven Express her senior year of high school as an editor for the school paper. As graduation neared, the editor of the Lock Haven Express asked Mazza if she would be willing to work as an intern during the summer.
Interning as a reporter and editor, Mazza spent between 15 and 20 hours per week at the Express, where she focused on writing human interest and business features.
Mazza’s day would begin by finishing stories from the previous day, finishing any interviews that she had not completed, writing up the story, and starting the process all over again with a new story. Mazza would also help her supervisor, Lana Muthler, with any announcements, birth announcements, and birthday wishes to go into the paper.
As an intern, Mazza had the opportunity to work with newspaper layouts. Mazza’s responsibilities included the Ross Library layout and the layout for the Central Mountain Middle school’s Junior Journal, but she also got to work on the layout for the Express as well.
During her internship, Mazza was truly touched when she was in charge of a story regarding the death of a classmate. Having to interview friends and family of the student, Mazza described the situation as difficult and emotional.
“The student’s cheerleading coach said, ‘What you have now might not be what you have in five minutes.’ This was a very emotional and strong statement,” said Mazza.
According to Mazza, her experience was what she had expected, and more. In fact, she even suggests that it helped her “come out of her shell.”
“I am more outgoing; it was a great opportunity and fun to be there with such unique people,” said Mazza.
Mazza contributes a lot of her success and growth to the stories that she covered. She was assigned to interview people in the Lock Haven area who are 100 years old.
“They all had cool stories from their lives. We took nice pictures and had a nice write up for them which made a good birthday present. I interviewed a lot of people from “street-car times.” To talk to someone like that who’s been a part of history is really cool,” said Mazza
Mazza says that this internship has helped her to keep her options open for now, but her true passion is fiction/novel writing.
“I just want to do the things that I am interested in for now and go from there until I get something going. Journalism is the backbone for that plan,” said Mazza.
Mazza feels that her internship helped her during some of her journalism classes that she is now taking at Lock Haven University.
“Writing for the Express was easier than learning to write stylistically. News Reporting is helping me with picking out the importance of a story. Writing for a newspaper has its own distinctive style and is not like writing a paper for English class,” said Mazza
Mazza advises anyone who is interested in interning to go for it. “Learning it in class and doing it are completely different. It helps decide if it is what you want to do or not. It’s always fun to get out and do what you want.”
Mazza started out at the Lock Haven Express as a member of her school’s newspaper club and worked hard to receive her internship; however, the Career Services Office is a great place to start your internship search.
By Amanda Alexander
Attending practice, spending time on the field during NFL games, and talking one-on-one with their favorite football players is something most fans can only dream of. But senior Adam Roberts got to experience all these things and more with his summer internship with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Roberts spent a month with the team’s public relations department working as a liaison between the players and local media, helping reporters get interviews with players and other information for potential stories, as well as setting up press conferences.
“It was a great experience,” Roberts said. “It gives me a lot of options when I leave.”
Before his internship, he was unsure about which way his career would lean. A communication media major with a double emphasis in print and public relations, Roberts only had experience working in print, with the Eagle Eye and his hometown paper, The Abington Journal. But his internship was his first opportunity to try out public relations, and he found that it was the field for him.
“I did it kind of just to see what I thought of it,” Roberts said. “But it gave me a lot of clarity.”
Roberts is now positive he wants to work in public relations, and he also knows the area he would like to focus on.
“It made me want to do sports. I just like the way it works; it’s so fast-paced,” he said.
A typical day for a training camp intern started at 6 a.m. Roberts and the other interns got together to make daily clip packets containing all the news articles concerning the Buccaneers. Roberts would go through the three local newspapers and the national papers, as well as websites, to find all articles relating to the team and would put the packets together, then distribute the packets to the team coaches and owners.
Practice started at 8 a.m., and Roberts would watch the practice and chat with the media. Roberts and his fellow interns were expected to know players by sight, so they could point them out on the field even when they weren’t wearing jerseys. They also needed to make sure the roster was constantly updated so players would not be mislabeled in photos.
After a two-to-three hour practice, Roberts would head onto the field to contact any players the media wanted to interview.
A few times the interns had a lot to handle thanks to media frenzy. For example, when rumors that Packers’ quarterback Brett Favre might be traded to the Buccaneers began to circulate, media flocked to the practices. Big names such as ESPN and Sports Illustrated wanted interviews with the team.
“There was an influx of national guys like crazy,” Roberts said. “We had to make sure they had everything they needed.”
His favorite aspect of the internship was getting behind the scenes of something he loves: football. “I’ve been a football fan since I was born… to see how many people work to put on a game was pretty incredible,” he said.
As a perk to his job, Roberts was able to sit in the box for a pre-season game; he and the other interns snuck onto the field at the end of the game. He also got to go through the tunnel with the rest of the team.
His internship also gave him the opportunity to try new things. “I discovered an entirely new field,” he said. The public relations department had just begun a new extension on the website, Buccaneers.com, and Roberts got to see how it worked firsthand. He also had three articles published on the site.
Roberts said his success in writing for his internship was mostly due to his experience with journalism classes and as an editor for the Eagle Eye. He has also been able to use his internship experience to relate back to his classes since he has returned to school. “It forced me to go more outside my box,” he said.
One important lesson his coworkers taught him was to work hard and prove himself. “Paying your dues is the way to get the job you want, and there’s no starting at the top,” he said. One of his supervisors went from being an intern like Roberts to obtaining a full-time job with the Buccaneers. “He’s a good example of working hard to get what you want,” Roberts said.
He also learned that networking is an important part of the job. He said this is one thing he would recommend to anyone who wants to work in public relations. “Make connections and go for it,” he said.